Editor’s Note

On July 5, 2026, Guo Goang Fashi and Žarko Andričević, both Dharma heirs of Master Sheng Yen, met again at the Chan Meditation Center in Queens, New York, for a discussion focused on Bodhidharma’s Two Entries and Four Practices.

Guo Goang Fashi, a Dharma heir of Master Sheng Yen since 2005, became a bhikṣuṇī in 1990. From 2006 to 2013, she served as the provost of Dharma Drum Mountain (DDM), and from 2013 to 2019 she undertook a six-year solitary retreat. She currently serves as Vice Abbot of DDM and as a senior teacher at the Chan Meditation Center in Queens, New York.

Žarko Andričević is the founder of the Dharmaloka Chan Buddhist Community and Chan Retreat Center in Croatia. He first encountered Buddhism in 1975 and, in the mid-1980s, started the first Buddhist study and meditation group in Croatia. A student of Chan Master Sheng Yen since 1996, he received Dharma transmission in 2001 and has since led retreats across Europe, North America, Taiwan, and Australia.

Their dialogue places this Chan teaching within its Buddhist inheritance, from early Buddhist teachings preserved in the Agama Sutras to the various Mahayana teachings.  Both teachers emphasize that intellectual understanding is only the beginning. The Dharma must be contemplated, practiced, and directly realized. The different traditions serve the same practical purpose: as medicine for suffering.

We offer heartfelt thanks to Min Shi, who translated from Chinese into English for Guo Goang Fashi, and Xingyuan Wang, who translated from English into Chinese forŽarko Andričević. Their linguistic precision, sensitivity to the speakers’ voices, and deep Buddhist acumen made this exchange possible across languages. This transcription was edited by Edward Lin.

— ✦ —

Guo Goang Fashi:

Good morning, everyone. I'm very happy to have this opportunity to be here and to have a discussion with Žarko about the Buddhist teachings and the practice.

So actually, during Shakyamuni Buddha's time, the Buddha often told his disciples that we should frequently come together to discuss the Buddhist teachings. And during these discussions, we can benefit from each other and learn. And our founder, Master Sheng Yen, also taught us that Dharma Drum Mountain is a Buddhist organization that focuses on training and cultivating the practice of the Three Studies, which are the precepts, samadhi, and wisdom. And he encouraged his disciples to often discuss and learn from each other about Buddhist teaching and practice.

Žarko and I, and everyone here, and also online, I believe, are mostly disciples of Shakyamuni Buddha. And we are all disciples of Shakyamuni Buddha and probably Master Sheng Yen as well. So as disciples of the Buddha, the most important and pleasant thing to do is actually to have the opportunity to sit down and study Buddhism, and to have the opportunity to discuss and clear up some misunderstandings and some unclear points to help us further our practice.

So today it's not a debate on who is better than the other. It's about coming here to learn from each other, have a discussion, share each other's understanding of Buddhism and practice, and benefit from this process. And we know our lineage, founded by Master Sheng Yen, is Chinese Chan Buddhism. So today our main focus is, through the discussion of the Two Entries and Four Practices by Bodhidharma, to further understand Chinese Chan Buddhism.

Photo by Ven. Chang Zhai

Subtitle - Background – Early Buddhism

But first, before we get to the Two Entries and Four Practices by Bodhidharma, we need to have a little bit of understanding about the background and from the origin and how they connect to this. So actually, the background of the teachings of Two Entries and Four Practices can be traced all the way back to the early Buddhist teachings from the Agama Sutras. So we're going to do a very brief review of how the teachings can be traced back to the original early Buddhist teachings.

So at Shakyamuni Buddha's time, what exactly got Shakyamuni Buddha enlightened? Enlightened about what? And what was Shakyamuni Buddha’s realization? He realized dependent origination and no-self. And those are the core teachings of right view and the key to liberation. So dependent origination and no-self really explain the cycle of birth and death—why there's birth and why there's death. And all these are actually dependently arisen.

In the twelve links of dependent origination, the key part is how they explain consciousness and how consciousness plays the leading role. Due to ignorance, consciousness perceives name and form—the body, mind, and self—leading to grasping and perpetuating the whole cycle. So the key part is that consciousness grasps name and form—the body and the mind—as a self. This starts the whole cycle of birth and death. But if we are able to somehow let consciousness not grasp the body and mind as self, then the whole cycle can loosen up. So that's where we focus.

So why does consciousness grasp name and form—the body and mind? That is because of ignorance. Because of the defilement of ignorance, consciousness has this upside-down view and grasps the body and mind as self. And specifically in the twelve links of dependent origination, it talks about how the sense bases make contact with the outside world, which leads to sensation, and then leads to craving, and then further leads to grasping, becoming, birth, aging, and death.

So the key part is that because consciousness is defiled by ignorance, it doesn't understand that there actually is no self, so it has this deluded, upside-down view. That's why the place where we put our practice and emphasis is on how we can train consciousness. When consciousness makes contact with the environment, it can perceive reality as-is and no longer have this upside-down view or be deluded by ignorance. And that's how we can solve the problem.

So the earliest Buddhist teachings taught by Shakyamuni Buddha use the methods of samatha and vipassana, calming the mind and observation. And if you can develop the power of samadhi and also wisdom, then you can perceive reality as-is, and you can understand dependent origination and no-self. And because of no-self, you stop grasping, and then eventually that leads to liberation.

Subtitle – Yogachara Consciousness-Only School

So when the teachings kept developing and reached the stage of Mahayana Buddhism, we address this from the perspective of the Yogacara Consciousness-Only school—how is it different from the earlier teachings? Well, the same part is that both earlier teaching and the Yogacara school focus on the consciousness, but Agama Sutra and the early Buddhist teaching only focus on the six consciousnesses.

But when the teachings developed into Mahayana Buddhism, the Yogacara school further explains and looks deeper into why consciousness perceives name and form—the body and mind—as self. Well, that is because of the seventh consciousness. The ego consciousness mistakes the eighth consciousness as self. That's the fundamental point of the seventh consciousness. The concept of the seventh consciousness and the eighth consciousness are the further developments from the early Buddhism, because early Buddhism only talks about the six consciousnesses. So the seventh consciousness is the key.

So for the Yogacara Consciousness-Only school, because it realized there is the seventh consciousness, that's a turning point. If we can transform this ego consciousness into wisdom, we can also achieve liberation, because the core teachings of the Yogacara school is that all phenomena are manifestations of consciousness-only.

So for the Yogacara school, the focus is transforming consciousness into wisdom, and because there's no ego involved anymore, the seventh consciousness will turn into the wisdom of equality. And the eighth consciousness, once there are no longer seeds of defilement, will turn into the great mirror-like wisdom. So what is wisdom? Wisdom is knowing things as they are. And so that's how the Yogacara school leads people to liberation.

Subtitle – Direct Experience

So when the teachings further developed to reach the Tathagatagarbha school, one of the representative sutra classics, the Lankavatara Sutra, teaches that all phenomena are manifestations of one's own mind or are illusory. So how is this school different from the Consciousness-Only school? Well, the major difference is in the practice, how we practice.

The Tathagatagarbha school and the Lankavatara Sutra address how we can direct our practice by directly contemplating how our mind arrives at this illusory stage, why we have these likes and dislikes. So we turn the mind inward and contemplate that. And we realize that we divide everything into the perceiver and the perceived. So through practice, we understand that the mind generates discriminations or illusions. By understanding that, when we free ourselves from these false discriminations, we can enter into liberation and transcend the Three Realms.

So when the teaching developed to the stage of Bodhidharma, Bodhidharma's teaching was that since all environments and realms are merely manifestations of one's own mind, this clearly illuminates how delusive thinking and discrimination establish subject and object. If we free ourselves from false discrimination, then we can enter into self-realized wisdom. And because the seventh consciousness is the ego consciousness and grasps at an ego, that's why the environment is divided into subject and object. If we are able to directly experience things as they are, that's how we achieve liberation.

So when we look back at the early Buddhist teachings, we contemplate the Dharma and develop all the way to contemplating consciousness. And with Bodhidharma, we contemplate the mind directly and just experience directly. So that's the background of the teachings and practice leading to Bodhidharma's practice.

Žarko Andričević:

Good morning to everyone. First of all, I would like to thank Chang Hwa Fashi for introducing us and hosting us here. And then I would say that I’m very happy to have the opportunity to discuss the Dharma again with Guo Goang Fashi.

So now, this was just maybe 2,000 years of Buddhist history that Venerable Guo Goang covered here, in a very short and very brief presentation. And I actually fully agree with what was said. And I think that if we really want to understand the simplicity of Chan as expressed in Bodhidharma's teaching on the Two Entries, we need to know the complexity which lies behind it. We need to know that this teaching is really deeply rooted first in early Buddhism, or the Agama Sutras in Chinese Buddhism, or the Pali Canon in Indian Buddhism.

Subtitle – Mahayana Roots and Practice

So as well as being rooted in these, it is also rooted in what we can call later developments, like the Mahayana teachings of Madhyamaka, Yogacara, and Tathagatagarbha. So somehow Chan is based on all those teachings. And at the same time, it is an expression of the very core of those teachings. It expresses the very essence of those teachings in an unimaginably simple way. And it does so because predominantly Chan is oriented toward practice. And in order to practice, we need to have very clear views, very, very clear concepts which are guiding our practice. And yes, it all begins with dependent origination from the teaching of the Buddha.

And dependent origination, to somehow simplify that, means that everything arises on the basis of causes and conditions. And so all phenomena arise on the basis of causes and conditions. And no-self is answering what phenomena are not. Okay? So if everything arises on the basis of causes and conditions, we can conclude that in all phenomena there is actually no self. They don't exist independently.

And whenever we speak about the self, that means that we see the self as something which exists separately, that exists independently, that is kind of an entity, something which lasts, which is there forever. And causes and conditions in pratityasamutpada, or dependent co-arising, show clearly that such a thing is not possible. Okay? So in the early teachings, no-self was, as Venerable said, the main focus. How to see the unreality of the illusory nature of self and liberate ourselves.

So Madhyamaka was actually extending this teaching of no-self to all phenomena. All phenomena do not have self. All phenomena are empty of a separate existence, not just self. And Yogacara, at the same time, was mostly preoccupied, again, as Venerable was explaining earlier, with the process of cognition and how it happens that in this process of cognition we mistakenly see the body and mind, nama-rupa, as a self.

Subtitle – Consciousness-Only and Buddha-Nature

And what I think is maybe important to say at this point is that when we are talking about Consciousness-Only, I think it's important to understand that this does not mean that only consciousness exists. It does not mean that the outside, material, external world does not exist. It would be a great, great mistake to understand the teaching like that.

What this teaching is saying is that in the process of cognition, we actually divide due to ignorance. We divide into self and other. We introduce this duality of self and other, which we then project onto phenomena. And for that reason, Consciousness-Only means that we don't really see reality as it is, but we are seeing our own projections of reality. We see our own interpretation of reality. And as our interpretation and reality are different, of course, we are in constant conflict with it, and therefore suffering arises out of it.

And as Venerable said, the main point of Yogacara is actually to come to this direct cognition of reality, therefore overcoming duality and freeing ourselves from suffering. So all these teachings were somehow, how to say, answering the various misconceptions which arose at the time.

So the Tathagatagarbha teaching, which was mentioned in the teaching of Buddha-nature, was somehow correcting the possible negative interpretation of emptiness, saying that the mind is half empty, half full. It's empty in its nature, but it is full of virtues. Once we realize the true nature of mind, we realize that all those virtues are able to manifest. And this is how we come to Chan and the Two Entries, Bodhidharma's Two Entries, which are entirely based on all these teachings and directed primarily toward direct experience of the true nature of our mind.

Guo Goang Fashi:

 Subtitle – Observing the Phenomenal World

So in Buddhist teaching, from early Buddhist teachings all the way to Mahayana Buddhism, you can see we have different interpretations and understandings of emptiness. It is actually addressed at different levels. So Mahayana Buddhism, just like Žarko mentioned, talks about how all phenomena are empty, not just no-self. But when you talk about all phenomena being empty from the Mahayana Buddhist point of view, it also includes that there is no self—the self is also empty.

And compared to Mahayana Buddhism, the earliest teachings focus on dependent origination and no-self. And they don't focus on the emptiness of all phenomena. And why is that? Because the practice is focused on dependent origination. And it is because all phenomena are arising based on this teaching of dependent origination—the interconnectedness.

So the early practitioners will practice this way—through vipassana. They actually observe that all phenomena arise and perish based on causes and conditions. So that would definitely lead to the experience of no-self. And because there is no grasping at self, those practitioners attain liberation through that method.

So in the earliest teachings, the focal point is on the six sense organs, how to observe through vipassana—observe the six sense organs—how they contact the environment. And if you can perceive that as it is, you can gain understanding from that. So the focus is on the phenomenal world, to understand that all phenomena are arising and perishing through dependent origination.

Subtitle – Early Buddhist Teachings and Mahayana

So then we came all the way to Mahayana Buddhism. When we come to Mahayana Buddhism, it doesn't put the focal point on the phenomenal world anymore. Because the phenomenal world is illusory, right? So it talks about the nature of phenomena. And from that perspective, from the Madhyamaka school all the way to the Chan school, it mainly talks about the nature, the essence of all dharmas. From the perspective of nature, all dharmas are empty.

And of course, when they address things from that perspective, we also understand that when all natures are empty or illusory, it of course includes the fact that the self is illusory, that it is dependently originated as well. So that's the characteristic of Mahayana Buddhism—that the focus is on the emptiness of all phenomena.

But we must remember that the fundamental teaching, of course, that all phenomena are empty includes that the self is empty as well. Because that's the core teaching of dependent origination and no-self. So from the perspective of the phenomenal world, the self is empty. But from the phenomenal world perspective, are all dependently arising phenomena also empty? Probably not, right? They are not empty. What is empty is the self—this is no-self. But from the perspective of the nature of all dharmas, yes, all phenomena are empty.

So we should understand the different emphases between the earliest teachings and Mahayana Buddhism and how they are actually consistent with each other, but just have different emphases and address things from different perspectives.

Žarko Andričević:

Subtitle – Dharma as Medicine

I fully agree with that.

Well, I think it's very important that out of these doctrinal elaborations here, we understand one very simple thing. We are not seeing reality as it is. And therefore, we have problems. Okay? So how can we see reality as it is and be free from those problems?

So this is what Buddhism is all about. It talks only about two things: how suffering arises and how suffering ceases. And in order to understand, well, we actually have to understand both. We have to be clear about how suffering arises and why suffering arises, and also how suffering ceases. And all these teachings, like in early Buddhism and Madhyamaka and Yogacara and Chan or Tathagatagarbha, they all actually talk about the same thing from different perspectives.

And why do they do so? Because they are different. They are different. And in order to relate to all these differences, as a medicine relates to different illnesses, the teaching is taught in order to help us overcome our problems. So that's why we have these different presentations, different teachings, different methods. They're not really different. They're all about the same thing—how we can help ourselves. And we need to understand that. Because if we approach all these varieties of Dharma teachings, which are there, seeing them as being separate, as being different, then we don't understand the main point of it. And the Dharma is first of all medicine. It is medicine. And we need to use it as medicine. It's not there, I would say, to satisfy our intellectual curiosity or for us to philosophize about it.

Its purpose is very practical, very down-to-earth. It actually deals with what is most important in every one of us. And that is how to let go of suffering, how to free ourselves, how to see who we really are, and then live in harmony with ourselves and with others.

Guo Goang Fashi:

Subtitle - Foundation

So I totally agree with what Žarko said. And here we come to Bodhidharma, Master Bodhidharma, who has a very direct relationship with our Chan teaching. What do we often say in Chan practice? Aren’t all phenomena with characteristics illusory? Right? Since they are all illusory, then what should we do? We just let them go, let it go. And that's our direct method.

But what we just covered is really the background of all teachings, including the Agama Sutra all the way to Madhyamaka, Consciousness-Only school, and Tathagatagarbha. So when we review and look back on all these background teachings, we understand that they all started with the same foundation and then further developed. They're just further developments.

It's like buildings: one floor, a second floor based on the first floor. It's really vertical and goes up level by level. It's going deeper, going into more detail and going broader. The explanations expand on the fundamental teachings.

So the original earliest Buddhist teaching really is the foundation, and then there are developments later on in different stages. And when it reaches Bodhidharma’s time, it's really already gotten all the way to the core of the teachings—all the way down to the foundation. Like now it is. The present moment just is.

So why do we still need to practice? And how do we practice, do you think? Because since all things are illusory and the present moment just is, do we still need to practice? And how?

So when we get to Bodhidharma's teachings, since all phenomena are illusory, we have to have this basic understanding that the self is also illusory. Because otherwise, you would fall into this trap in practice—that all phenomena are empty, but I'm not empty.

Žarko Andričević:

Subtitle - Flexibility

Yes, so now we're really covering all these background teachings and understandings.

And then when we come to Chan and to its simplicity, it's important to understand that Chan does not have a teaching of its own, in a sense. Chan is very flexible: it uses whatever is appropriate at a certain time and under certain conditions.

And so we can actually see that it is said that Bodhidharma brought along the Lankavatara Sutra—he himself—to China, and he was telling his students that after his passing, they could rely on that sutra in order to interpret their experiences, or to check whether their experiences were correct. So he left them with the Lankavatara Sutra.

But later on, we find that Master Hongren, the Fifth Patriarch of Chan, used the Diamond Sutra as a basis for his teaching. And that precisely shows us that Chan is not fixed in the way it approaches the situation and the conditions which are present at a certain point in time.

So whatever is effective, whatever is appropriate to use as a medicine, Chan will use that. And I think in the Lankavatara Sutra there is a line which says that the Tathagata sometimes teaches no-self, and sometimes teaches the Tathagatagarbha teaching. So due to different conditions, if somebody is alone, maybe afraid of the idea that everything is empty and that nothing exists, the Tathagata would teach the Tathagatagarbha teaching—the teaching on Buddha-nature—at that point.

And they are both true. And they both have the potential to free us from suffering. So I think it's very important to see that in Chan there is not this rigidity in the approach to teaching, the methodology of teaching, and in various practices used in Chan.

Precisely because we use Chan and its views and methods in order to let go of our own rigidity. So if the teaching is rigid, and we want to let go of our own rigidity with such a teaching, it wouldn't be possible. So the teaching has to be flexible, and has to correspond with our particular situation at a particular time. That is very, very important. And I think that's very obvious in Chan from what has been said so far.

Now, it is true that I said that Chan is not based on any teaching specifically, but we could say that some things are consistently present in Chan, like the teaching on Buddha-nature. So that's precisely because of that teaching on Buddha-nature that Chan presents a sudden school, a school of sudden realization. So it is not that in the course of practice we are somehow creating something that does not exist from the very beginning. So practice is not a creation or construction or becoming something that we are not. It does not lead to such a goal. So the practice, in its essence, is more like a deconstruction. So we let go of whatever is there in order to uncover what is there from the very beginning. Okay? And I think that is a very, very important message of Chan, that we are actually fine. Everything is okay with us. We all have this Buddha-nature in ourselves. And a deluded mind can turn in a moment into an awakened mind. And that is very, very encouraging, I would say, in our practice.

Guo Goang Fashi:

Subtitle – Deconstruct the View of Self

Okay. So first of all, I totally agree with what Žarko said. And the important thing is to deconstruct the view of self. But as to how to deconstruct the view of self—around that question, different traditional schools developed. For example, in the Yogacara Consciousness-Only school, they focus on understanding the seventh consciousness and the eighth consciousness, and the seventh consciousness’s ego-grasping. So if you're able to deconstruct the view of self—body and mind—then, of course, everything will be good. Liberation can start from there. So in the teachings, the key point is how to deconstruct the view of self.

Photo by Ven. Changzhai

So based on that question, different practice methods evolved, and they all try to transcend the view of self. And when it comes down to Bodhidharma’s Two Entries and Four Practices, the First Entry into liberation is by awakening to essential truth through the teachings. So that's the entry through teachings. And if you're able to fully realize that the core teachings are dependent origination and no-self—all phenomena are illusory—and if you're able to awaken to that essential truth, you can enter liberation through the teachings.

And through the teachings, you will see the ultimate truth—that there's the original face. In Chan practice, we often say that there's really no self—only the original face. And we can also see the true nature of all dharmas. So that is entry through teachings mentioned in the Two Entries and Four Practices.

So that's the most direct way, right? But is it easy to do? You know, once we hear all this, understand all this, are we liberated? No, unfortunately, it's not that easy to do, even though it seems easy to understand. But with all the teachings, we say the metaphor is like the finger pointing to the moon, right? We want to see the moon, but first we understand the pointing finger. But sometimes it's not even easy to understand the pointing finger, let alone say that we can see the moon through the pointing finger.

Subtitle – Three Levels of Understanding

So the entry through practice—when we say that you attain liberation through entry through practice—is actually not easy to do. And when we talk about understandings or awakenings, we are also addressing different levels, right? First of all, when you hear the teachings, that's one thing. You hear the teachings, right? You think you understand, right? That's one level, the most superficial level. And the second level is you think about it. You think about the teachings. You understand, digest the teachings. You think you understand the teachings. That's through thinking and analyzing the teachings. So that's the second level. But the third level is you not only intellectually understand—you hear the Dharma, you understand the Dharma— but you also realize the Dharma. You attain the Dharma yourself, by your own direct experience. And then you say you understand the Dharma. That's a different level, right, the highest level.

So when Bodhidharma talks about the entry through principle—the awakening to the essential truth through teachings—it's mostly referring to the last level of understanding, right? Understanding through your own practice, through your own direct realization. And what do you understand? You understand, again, the original face—your original face. There's no intrinsic self. There's no thing that's fixed that’s not subject to dependent origination. So that's the basic point—you can see from their nature that all phenomena are illusory.

And you understand from the phenomenal world that all things are illusory. By understanding that, you can let go of all the illusions and return to the true, original mind. And then you will be able to understand and realize no-self and that there's no duality. There's no subject and object—no I, me or you. And then you let it go, really deconstruct the view of self.

Subtitle – Awakening to Essential

And if we are able to get to that point, then we start practicing—continually practicing and letting go of all phenomena. Just as the text of the Two Entries mentions, you practice wall-gazing, where there's no self and no others, where ordinary beings and sages are equal and identical, free from the dualistic discriminations, serene and unconditioned. And this is what is called the entry through teachings.

So at that point, you understand the finger pointing to the moon. Because even if you don't have the whole knowledge of all these teachings, what you experienced is still in accordance with all the teachings. Just like the Sixth Patriarch, Master Huineng, right? From the classics, we understand he probably didn't read all the teachings, but still, what he experienced and realized was exactly in accord with all the teachings, with all the fundamental teachings of Bodhidharma.

So this is what we call awakening to the essential truth through teachings. Teachings serve as guidance to our practice. They are concise and direct to the essence. But the thing is, the causes and conditions of sentient beings are very different. So through this process of understanding teachings, are we able to directly experience it? Probably not. That's why we ask: are there skillful means that can help us?

Žarko Andričević:

Subtitle - Wall-Gazing

Oh, well, I can't add much to that. And I think it's very, very clear that it was a very clear transition from learning about the Dharma, and then thinking about the Dharma, and then internalizing it—looking at our own experience in terms of the Dharma—and then practicing the Dharma, and then in the end realizing it. So this is how wisdom actually arises.

So in this Entry through Principle, Master Bodhidharma is telling us that, yes, we can access that principle through the teaching, but in the end, what really matters is direct experience. And to that direct experience we come through letting go of whatever is covering our true nature—of whatever stands in between us and reality.

And as we were talking earlier, what stands in between us and reality is our own projections, our own interpretations of the world. So if we want to arrive at and experience this principle directly, we have to let go of these mental constructions we are creating.

We have to see that this duality is not a reality, that objects and subjects exist dependently, and therefore neither exists separately. And once we see that in the act of cognition, we are not really separated from what we are cognizing, then we are free from that duality, and we experience reality directly.

So as for meditating on the wall, I think the scholars who were studying the Two Entries were really confused by that method. They couldn't really figure out what kind of method meditating on the wall is, because they had never heard of such a thing in the Buddhist tradition. And probably that is the only place in the whole of Buddhist literature that this is mentioned as such.

But of course, it has this symbolic meaning, you know. And if we contemplate the nature of the wall, we could say it's a symbol of stability. We could also say that the wall doesn't ask for whatever we hang on it. So in a sense, it is neutral to whatever we put on it.

And the wall definitely does not grasp or reject. And this is actually the meaning of biguan, as it is expressed in Chinese. And this is the method of meditation that Bodhidharma is giving us in order to experience the principle, in order to come face to face with reality, and then realize our original face. All right, I'll stop here.

Guo Goang Fashi:

Subtitle – How to Transcend Duality

So now we see that we explained the teachings, the Entry through Principle, like layer by layer. But it all—even at last—comes down to how we transcend the duality, the subject and object. And where does that come from, right? Where does the duality come from? It really comes from the grasping at the self. So from the entry through principle, we understand how things work, the origin, the conditioned arising, and all those principles.

But how does that principle apply to the phenomenal world? Once we realize the principle, how do we apply the principle to our daily life, when we deal with, you know, people, life, the outside world, and the different objects? How can we understand and handle all this? And that would come down to the practice, the Entry through Practice, the Four Practices mentioned in the text.

And first, we practice accepting adversity. So as a practitioner, when we face difficult situations that we don't like, what would ordinary beings do? They will resent. “Why did this happen to me? Why do I have these difficulties?” But if you understand the principle, all the teachings, you understand that, you know, all phenomena arise based on causes and conditions and cause and effect. So there's really no self, right? And so if there's no self, then who is resenting? You know, there's no need to resent. So when adversity, difficulty arises, if we understand that all phenomena arise due to the causes and conditions, then we have no resentment.

And the same applies when we face favorable conditions, right? When we face favorable conditions, we want to grasp at them. We want to treat them as permanent things, and we want to own them, right? That's how we usually react to favorable conditions.

That is also grasping, because fundamentally, there's a self. We grasp at the self. But if we apply the same principle, the same teachings, we also understand this is just a conditioned arising and nothing special. There's no self to cling to.

And then when it comes down to the third practice, it is the practice of no seeking. “Seek nothing” doesn't mean we do nothing. Do we just sit around and do nothing? It means you still do everything according to what you need to do. But there's no concept of duality—that someone is doing all these things. There's no subject and object that, like, “I'm doing all this; I need this.”

Because we also apply the principle and teachings, we understand all phenomena, all dharmas, arise based on causes and conditions. When causes and conditions ripen, the phenomena arise. So we just do it, right? We respond to whatever arises, whatever causes and conditions arise. There's no duality of self, subject, and objects. Thinking that I am doing things creates duality.

Subtitle – Applying the Four Practices

And the last of the Four Practices is to act in accordance with the Dharma. And that is the principle of intrinsic purity as Dharma. So we act in regard to all phenomena according to the Dharma. The basic principle is applying the teachings and the principles to our daily life. That is really how, once you realize the principle, you practice: you apply the principle to the phenomenal world, to our daily life, and try to let go self-grasping, self-attachment.

And the more you practice, the deeper your practice becomes, the more you will understand the principles. Because first we hear the teachings, then we contemplate the teachings, we internalize the teachings, and then we directly realize the teachings. It's all step by step and goes further and further.

But the power of our practice is different. No matter whether you're at the stage of just hearing the Dharma, contemplating the Dharma, or already realizing the Dharma, the attitudes are the same, but the power of your practice is different. So in our daily life, we apply the principles to really work on letting go of self-attachment and gaining a deeper understanding of the teachings.

So when we practice the Four Practices given in the text, the important thing to understand is that all our sufferings and all our problems are not caused by whatever arises, whatever conditions—whether adversity or favorable conditions. All our suffering is not caused by objects. It is because we connect the self to the objects, to the conditions. Then we will have different reactions, right?

For example, someone is scolding. Someone is scolding people and we get angry. Why do we get angry? That's because the person is scolding me—because it's me, so I get really angry. But what if the person is scolding other people? How would you react? You probably wouldn't give rise to anger. So you see, the problem is not the phenomenon or conditions that someone is scolding; it is when we make the connection to the self.

And how we face that situation, how we face the object, is where we need to practice. We shouldn't connect to the self directly. Because once we make the connection to the self, we will develop likes and dislikes. “This is good, I like it.” And that further leads to greed—"I want to have more good things.” And if this is something bad, I perceive it as bad because it connects to me. Then I develop rejection—“I want to run away from unfavorable conditions. I hate it.” That gives rise to hatred, anger, and all that.

So when we practice in the phenomenal world, it is important to perceive things as they are. Perceive conditions and objects as they are, without adding the self to them. If we can do that, then throughout daily life, we just respond to whatever causes and conditions arise. We just respond to them accordingly, so there is really no need to add the “I”.

That is how we apply the principle to our daily life and practice. And if we are able to do that in daily life, we will have fewer vexations because we have less grasping at the self. Again, all our sufferings, vexations, and problems are not created by others or by the phenomenal world. They are created by our connection to the self.

Žarko Andričević:

Subtitle – Conditioning and Karma

It was very nicely said and explained. So if our situation were defined by the outside circumstances, we couldn't have a chance. The path would be meaningless. There would be no path, actually. And that is very important to understand.

But it is not so. We have all the power to change. Because actually, it depends on us. You know, how we are seeing reality is our personal conditioning. We are conditioned through our upbringing, through our education, through our various experiences in life, through the culture to which we belong.

So these are all forms of conditioning that make us see situations in the world in a particular way. And the problem is that if we really believe in it, if we think that the impressions we have of the world are true impressions, then we have a huge problem, actually.

So I'm just coming from a retreat. And on retreat, we talk a lot about wandering thoughts and thinking processes and so on. So we said at one point that we are struggling with wandering thoughts in retreat. But actually, people who don't practice and who are not on retreats, they don't have wandering thoughts.

For them, every thought is a right thought because they fully trust their perception. And they think that how they recognize, how they know things is how things are. And then they are stuck in that view. And they are stuck in the experience they have as a result of having that view. So the teaching is giving us quite a different perspective. And when we talk about these Four Practices, the first of them is actually about karma. It's the fact that whatever we experience at a particular moment is a result of our previous deeds.

Subtitle – Three Natures

But what is very important to understand at that point is that we have the possibility of not perpetuating that karma further. We have the possibility of experiencing the conditions, but then reacting or responding to these conditions in a different way. This is how we actually change the course of our life. This is how we change what we experience. So we could say that we are creating ourselves from moment to moment. And our life is a result of this creation. But if we are creating ourselves from moment to moment without knowing that we are doing it, then we don't know where we are going. And that could be a huge problem. Okay?

So, well, the whole practice is there in order to help us understand that we actually imagine the world to be something which the world is not. So this imagining in Yogacara is called parikalpita. This is one of the Three Natures in Yogacara. And the other one is the dependent nature. That is actually causes and conditions which are underneath those illusions which we create—something which is actually happening all the time. And then we have this parinispanna or perfected reality. That is when we recognize that we misinterpret reality and we let go of this duality present there. And then we actually experience everything as causes and conditions. And we simply adapt to these causes and conditions. And if we can change them, we change them. If we can't, we accept them. And that is how we establish harmony inside of ourselves. And that is how we establish harmony with others and with life in general.

So we simply follow causes and conditions—not opposing them, not grasping at them, not rejecting them, but simply being very clear about what is in front of us at any particular moment. We can say we are walking in permanence in an impermanent world. And if we know that, we live peacefully, we live in harmony, and we live in happiness, full of joy. And if we see reality in that way, we are not creating problems for ourselves and we are not creating problems for others, as Master Sheng Yen said once.

Subtitle - Applying Wisdom in Daily Life

So this is how we use wisdom: not creating problems for ourselves, not creating problems for others. This is like a negative definition, but there is, of course, a positive one: not only avoiding creating problems for others, but actually helping others not to create problems for themselves or others.

First, it's important to know how to deal wisely with difficulties in life. That is the first thing that is very important—to know how to deal with the difficulties. But then the next thing is to know how to deal with the situations that we actually like—when things are going our way, when we are happy because everything is unfolding as we like it to unfold. Both points are where we can actually lose ourselves and both are very important: experiencing difficulty without giving rise to vexations, and experiencing pleasant and good circumstances without giving rise to greed in ourselves or wanting to hold on to them.

This is how our self manifests in the world. So if we can see that this is actually how the self manifests, and if we can see how, by manifesting in this way, we create suffering in our life, we can let go of it. And then we can simply be in accordance with karma—be in accordance with causes and conditions.

Photo by Chan Meditation Center